Kalyan Banerjee intervenes during Minister’s reply on The Inter-State River Water Disputes (Amendement) Bill, 2019

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At the commencement of your speech you have confused us, you have confused me. You have said one chairman, one vice-chairman, three judicial members and three experts.So it comes to eight. In your Bill, in Clause 4E(1)(b), it is stated that ‘the Chairperson may constitute a Bench consisting of the Chairperson or Vice-Chairperson as the presiding officer, with one Judicial Member and one Expert Member.’ That means one bench will consist of three persons.

Now, two benches can be constituted. If one has three members, two benches would have six members. But you are saying here that there would be eight members. Then what about the other two members? It is your debate, you started with those numbers.

You have confused me. In your debate you yourself have talked about eight members – one chairman, one vice chairman, three judicial members and three experts. And then again, your Bill is talking about two benches, with three members on each. So what would the two members do? Is there any necessity to appoint eight members, or six members? This is my number one issue.

Number two is regarding the sitting of this tribunal in Delhi. If you remember, in front of the Law Minister I had said that – here I am taking the privilege of the presence of the Law Minister, and this is with regard to not only this Bill – why should every tribunal’s head office be in Delhi? I am not restricted here. I am taking the privilege of the presence of the Law Minister. Aap toh zyada padhe hain, aap bahut intelligent hain, hum utna intelligent nahi. Toh aap yeh six aur eight samjha dijiye.

 

Kalyan Banerjee speaks on The Inter-State River Water Disputes (Amendment) Bill, 2019

FULL TRANSCRIPT 

Chairman Sir, to a certain extent I agree with the Honourable Minister’s speech that not only for years together but for decades together the tribunals were functioning. Sometimes I was astonished as to how long a tribunal can take for adjudicating a dispute.

I know about one such case, involving a judge who retired from Patna in either 1990 or 1991. He was elevated as a judge for only one year. I know that upto 2017 he was a member of a water disputes tribunal. After retirement, from 1992 to 2017, that is, for almost 25 years, he continued as a judge of a water disputes tribunal; and this tribunal was functioning, the members being like the part-time members of any tribunal, doing other jobs, arbitration, etc. When they got the time, they looked into the matters before the tribunal. Therefore, there is no doubt that this is a very good proposal that has been brought by this Bill – to constitute a permanent tribunal, and the constitution of the tribunal has also been given here.

According to the speech of the Honourable Minister, the Inter-State River Water Disputes Tribunal will constitute of a chairman, vice-chairman, three members from the judiciary and three other experts, therefore a total of eight members. Now since power has been given to the tribunal to assign any matter to the benches, two questions arise: one, how many benches can be created, and two, how many members would constitute a bench.

If three members are there, then at least two judicial members should be there, because expert members’ views cannot supercede the views of the judicial members. That is the law of this country and that should be followed. A view coming from an administrative member without knowledge of the law will not be appreciated, and as you know, Sir, in various judgements, the Supreme Court has said that a judicial member’s view needs to be given due weightage. Therefore these are two important questions that I have: how many benches will be and how many members would constitute a bench?

I will speak on only two or three points. Clause 4B(2)(b) says, ‘the Chief Justice of India or a Judge of the Supreme Court nominated by him’. I will request you to keep only ‘Chief Justice of India’ and not ‘a Judge of the Supreme Court nominated by him’. I will make this request. Let the Chief Justice remain in the consultation process although this committee consists of the Honourable Prime Minister, the Chief Justice of India or a judge nominated by him, the minister-in-charge, other ministers, etc.

But I have a  little request. The views of the Chief Justice should be given the primacy since there is no scope to appoint any Member of Parliament, be it the Leader of the Opposition or from the largest party; there is no scope in this Bill. It is also about having deep respect for the judiciary. Ultimately in our country, democracy has been strengthened because of a number of interventions by the Supreme Court. We must accept that.

Sir, the continuation of the proceeding before the tribunals was not only because of fault on the part of the members of the benches. If we say so then we will not be doing justice to the members. It is a fact that even for minor issues, the parties to a dispute would come to the Supreme Court and fight for its intervention, and matters would remain pending before the Supreme Court for years together. Therefore, the Supreme Court too should take initiatives to decide disputes that are going on for decades together, like that between Tamil Nadu and Karnataka, quickly and not entertain interventions at every stage. I find that in cases of water disputes, almost every order passed by the tribunal is taken to the Supreme Court by one of the parties, and the process of resolution of the dispute become staled. This is another important factor to consider.

Sir, so far as the benches of the tribunal are concerned, 4E(2) says, ‘The Benches of the Tribunal shall ordinarily sit at New Delhi or at such other places as the Chairperson may decide.’ Incidentally the Honourable Law Minister is also present here. I seek the intervention both of the Honourable Minister and the Honourable Law Minister. Why should the main offices of all tribunals, the main branches, be in Delhi? Why? Every tribunal’s main office is in Delhi. What is the attraction of Delhi? And that’s the reason fees of lawyers in Delhi are tremendously high. I will request the Law Minister, who is  also present here, to reduce the burden of the litigants by making more circuit benches and setting up the head offices of different tribunals in different States. Then you will find that the lawyers’ fees would also come down from unreasonable amounts. And because of the Supreme Court, Delhi lawyers are enjoying. They will do their court-related work upto 4 o’clock and then do their arbitration-related work. Nothing of this sort should be allowed. Arbitration should be a full-time job, not a part-time one. I am taking advantage of the presence of the Law Minister. Please look into this.

Clause 4A(5) says that ‘Any water dispute which cannot be settled by negotiations shall be referred by the Central Government, by notification, to the Tribunal for its adjudication within a period of three months from the date of receipt of the report under sub-section (3).’ Almost on all issues of water dispute, matters come to loggerheads and therefore remain unresolved. If it can help in the resolution, I have a humble suggestion: before making a reference appoint at least one neutral arbitrator to settle the dispute, and this appointment can be made by the Central Government. If the matter is still not resolved, the Central Government can refer it to the tribunal.

<Minister’s intervention>

Dispute redressal committees never settle any dispute. As an example, in matrimonial matters, if you go to a redressal committee, it will ask for money to settle the dispute. This cannot be the approach. The Delhi High Court rules are there in the Constitution. If you to the councils which have been appointed, the first thing they will say to the wife is how much money does she want to settle the dispute. Should this be the approach in a constitutional proceeding? This should not never be the approach. Regarding mediators, only the Lok Adalats are functioning properly, settling disputes regarding the dues with banks.

I invite your attention to West Bengal. During the rainy season, when there is heavy rainfall, the Damodar Valley Corporation (DVC) releases water without consulting the State Government, because of which the entire Hooghly, Howrah and East Midnapore districts are flooded. People are affected. I think those who are coming from West Bengal, any Member, irrespective of party, know how the DVC releases water.

I will request the Honourable Minister, since I got this opportunity, to also take care of this issue. Everything should be done in consultation with the State Government. After all ours is a quasi-federal set-up. Before releasing water during the rainy season, why should there be no consultation with the State Government? When you are bringing any Bill, any issue in it that needs the cooperation of both the Centre and the State, the wording in the Bill should be in such a way as to ensure that. My experience is this: in the 17th Lok Sabha, and in fact from the last part of the 16th Lok Sabha, for any subject in the Concurrent List, there has been no consultation with the States. Why is it that the State should not be consulted at every stage? The Central Government does not suffer after all, it is the people of the States who suffer. Therefore the Central Government should consult, an institution like the DVC should consult the State Governments. I am talking about States like West Bengal and other lower riparian States.  Why should there be no consultation? Unless you get the money from the income tax from the States you can’t run your ministry. You may take all the credits but all the revenue is coming from the income taxes of the States, that is the reason you are showing your power. Otherwise you are powerless and toothless.

 

Sudip Bandyopadhyay raises a Point of Order concerning allowing discussion on States’ law and order issues 

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Let us come to a conclusion. I once raised the issue that State subjects like law and order  better not be allowed on the floor of the House. But three questions were allowed to be raised on the issue of law and order in Bengal on one day. I lodged a protest later before your office for clarification on why on the same day, the same question in different forms was allowed to be raised – concerning the law and order situation of a State. Therefore, if Bengal is being allowed, then why not UP is being allowed? We though boldly condemn the incident which happened in Uttar Pradesh.

Saugata Roy speaks on The Code on Wages Bill, 2019 

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Sir, I rise to speak on The Code on Wages, 2019. I will not speak for too long because the Bill was placed in this House in 2017, then it went to the Standing Committee, then it came back and it was again placed in 2018. This is a codification of that Bill. Basically it is an amalgamation of four Acts – The Minimum Wages Act, 1948, The Payment of Wages Act, 1936, The Payment of Bonus Act Act, 1965 and The Equal Remuneration Act, 1976. I will later explain whether this Bill is an improvement on these Acts. Now this amalgamation has been done at the behest of the employers. The Government has proposed that it will put all the labour laws in five codes. The employers, CII, I saw in a statement, want only one code and the Government has bent somewhat to assuage their feelings.

Sir, but it is not the law that really matters. You are coming from Kalyan, which is a centre of the cashew industry. The condition of workers in this country is very bad, so bad that I feel unable to do trade unions anymore because the workers will have a bargaining power as long as the management is making a profit. As soon as it starts making losses, the question becomes how many workers’ jobs you maybe able to save.

Sir, I got tired of negotiating for retaining workers in a company let alone their wages. This pathetic situation has been happening ever since liberalisation started in the country in 1991 and this has been acclimated in the few years of the NDA rule, when the employers are feeling very strong. So we have the Minimum Wages Act and the Payment of Bonus Act. Now who will calculate the allocable surplus from the profit after analysing the balance sheet? Nobody! What help will the Government give them to calculate the allocable surplus? Nothing!

Well, the Payment of Bonus Act here is also in the course of business, minimum 8.33 per cent and maximum 20 per cent is fixed but as far as allocable surplus is concerned or productivity link bonus is concerned. This is the pathetic situation of workers in this country, that they are fighting with their backs to the wall to save their existing privilege.

In trade unions, we say that existing benefits cannot be curtailed, I can show you company after company where the existing benefits of workers have been curtailed, where employment has been curtailed. By the way, neither State Governments nor the Central Government has been able to prevent that. Now in India it is said that the manufacturing is only 20 per cent of GDP. The main income comes from the service sector. How many unions are there in a call centre? None! How many unions are there in the IT industry? None! Women are working in the IT industry. What protection are you able to give them through trade unions? Nothing! The workers are caught in this whirlpool where they are losing their basics.

I don’t know but even in the BJP there might be some people who think of the workers, others are not much concerned, they are just ‘Jai Shri Ram’ people so they are not concerned but those who think about the organised working class will realise that unless the organised working class can survive there will be nothing.

Another thing is, formally, the public sector was there. Public sector was seen as an ideal employer. Now public sector companies are shutting down one by one. I just went to Sadananda Gowda to please save one company in my constituency, Bengal Chemicals, from being strategically sold. So the public sector, which was an ideal employer, is now shrinking. So there is nobody, no fallback for the working classes. So they are not getting wages, they are being deprived of bonus and you see Chairman sa’ab, if a company defaults on payment of wages, you will have to go to the payment of wages court. Who will write the application for the workers? We white-collared people entered into trade unions because the workers cannot write an application in English. The Bill talks about appointing a facilitator; will your facilitator help the trade unions or the ordinary workers to draft petitions, to draft appeals to different courts? These are matters to be thought over.

Today, having a labour court or not having a labour court, these laws were there earlier. If you see this Bill and go through the four Acts – The Minimum Wages Act, The Payment of Wages Act, The Payment of Bonus Act Act, and The Equal Remuneration Act – there is not much difference. So the same things have been amalgamated into one.

There are only a few good features. For the first time floor wages for the whole country in different geographical areas, have been fixed, good thing. Another new thing – inspectors-cum-facilitators are being appointed to overcome the ‘Inspector raj’. Inspectors only went to companies and took their money and came away. So it facilitated a self-working class; it will be a good thing. Third is, now there is an appellate authority against payment avoidance. Fourth, now an under-secretary-level officer of the Government of India has been appointed to dispose of cases, punishable with Rs 50,000. That’s a good thing. Some cases will be disposed of.

Advisory bodies at the Central level and the State level are being formed. It’s a good thing though I know, we’ll meet once in one year and drink tea and some biscuits and depart. I have been members of many advisory boards in my life; they have no purpose because they have no executive power. So they will just say, some people shout a little, others will sit quiet, tea and samosa will come, they will take that and depart. So that will have no solution.

This Bill, so I say, is an amalgamation. It provides all the essential elements of wages, equal remuneration, payment and bonus. Now regarding minimum wages, I will say that even for the implementing minimum wages, we have to struggle. But at least minimum wages are some protection and some organisations like Central Government organisations, once a minimum wage is notified, pay that. So minimum wages is good. Now, you said that minimum wage will take into consideration skill differential, skills required and outwardness of the work and geographical location. This is good formula for minimum wages. And they will appoint as many committees as necessary. The good formula for minimum wages and they will appoint as many committees as necessary, it is a good thing.The Bill has included working journalists including TV journalists also. Sales promotion employees will be covered.

The Labour Minister, I think you went to Kolkata, you had a meeting with sign workers where BJP has formed a union. But for a Central Minister to go to a few workers does not behove. You didn’t go? Then it’s ok.

Sir, the last point, the overtime has been fixed. It will be twice the normal rate of deduction. So, I shall speak again when the occupational thing, this Code on Wages, makes the book only smaller; it does not solve any problem. Think of a way to give workers a little more strength. Think of a way so that workers can lead their own union and do not need the babus like you to write their petitions and letters. Think of a way where workers can work without the help of advocates from outside who make a killing out of their misery. We want wages, we want the organised working class to survive intact. Of course, the Ambanis and the Adanis will be happy but the nation will be very very unhappy.

With these words, I have nothing against this Bill. I have many amendments for which I will notice, 20 or, so amendments. But they are all procedural. Basically, the idea of having a single law I am not objecting to and you have maintained the basic right that workers had. So I have no objection to the Bill as such. With these words Sir, I end my speech.

 

Saugata Roy asks a Question on reduction in ESI contribution

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Thank you for clubbing the Question Sir and giving me an opportunity. Sir, two things are not clear. The Labour Minister is the Chairman of the ESI Corporation. They have reduced the employer contribution from 4.75 to 3.25; also the employees’ contribution. All the trade unions oppose this reduction of the employers’ contribution. 

Further, the ESI is s a good scheme for the workers. It is good that it is being extended but there are crores of ESI dues from different companies. In jute mills, which are there in my area, there are ESI dues amounting to Rs 100 crore. Also the ESI hospitals are not running properly, as the earlier Member had mentioned.

May I ask the Hon’ble Minister, through you Sir, as to what is the reason for reduction employers’ contributions? Is it to give relief to the capitalists and the big industry owners? What is the minister doing to recover ESI dues from companies which are in default and whether he will set up a committee to look into the state of affairs in the ESI hospital in my constituency? There is an ESI hospital in Kamarhati also; it is in doldrums. Will the minister appoint a committee to look into the affairs of the ESI hospitals?

 

Kalyan Banerjee speaks on the problems faced by the jute industry in Bengal

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Sir, by the press release dated November 22, 2018, the Cabinet Committee of Economic Affairs has taken a decision to procure 100 percent jute bags for the purpose of the all safety sectors and 20 percent for sugar. This procurement has not been done. This is a Central Government decision. 

The jute industries are really suffering and all jute industries, specially in West Bengal. In both the two districts of Hooghly and North 24 Parganas, at least 25 jute mills are there; they are suffering.

Through you, I have a request that the Ministry of Textile must implement this Cabinet decision, which has been taken for the purpose of procurement of jute bags from all the jute mills. Since no procurement is being made, 60 percent of the jute industries are closed down; lakhs and lakhs of jute workers have become unemployed. Therefore, this is my request that this step should be taken.

 

Mala Roy speaks on the incidents of suicide attempts in Kolkata Metro

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Hon’ble Speaker Sir, as you all know that Kolkata Metro started its operation in 1984 and is India’s oldest Metro service. During this period of time we have experienced many suicides and suicide attempts in the Metro premises. 

A larger portion of the Kolkata Metro runs through our constituencies Kolkata Dakshin, Kolkata Uttar and Jadavpur etc. So, I would like to request the minister to look into this matter very seriously and take up immediate steps to introduce platform-screen doors in all Kolkata Metro stations to enhance the safety and security of the people. 

Thank you.

Prasun Banerjee speaks on the need for alleviating traffic jams at several level crossings in his constituency

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Thank you Sir for the giving time to me to speak. Sir, I have been elected from the Howrah parliamentary constituency in West Bengal. Sir, I draw the kind attention of the Railway Minister through you that in spite of several attempts, South Eastern Railway authorities did not provide three railway crossings; number one Baksara railway crossing gate, L/06, number two Jaynagar level crossing S/S01 and lastly much more important Bator gate level crossing number SS 02 which is situated at having busy track and main lines. 

Sir, I am demanding, through you, to provide suitable alternative in these three level crossings as the entire Baskara area undergoes daily pain due to the wastage of time at these crossings, when they go about their daily lives, schools, colleges and offices. This is not out of point to mention that on several occasions patients have died in ambulances, while waiting at these crossings. 

Sir, my request is that the Railway Minister must look into the issue as quick as possible.

 

Sudip Bandyopadhyay demands that unparliamentary comments of BJP MPs be expunged from records

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In yesterday’s Zero Hour, one of the MPs, Locket Chatterjee, mentioned cut money, which is one type of bribery, is being kept – 25 per cent with the party workers and 75 per cent with the CM.

 If any such wild allegation is raised in the West Bengal Legislative Assembly against the PM, and if it is not expunged, it will not look good. The CM of West Bengal is not present in the House. Our Chief Minister is one of the most honest and best chief ministers. 

A law and order situation also cannot be discussed on the floor of the House. If it is allowed, then Uttar Pradesh and Bihar should also be discussed on the floor of the House. <interruptions>

 

Dr Kakoli Ghosh Dastidar speaks on The Indian Medical Council (Amendment) Bill, 2019

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The Indian Medical Council (Amendment) Bill, 2019 is the prelude to another Bill, precessed to another chapter, the NMC. The Indian Medical Council (Amendment) Bill, 2019 is to repeal the Ordinance promulgated by the Mahamahim Rashtrapati ji on January 12, 2019. This Bill has also been scrutinised by the department-related Parliamentary Standing Committee on Health and Family Welfare. This is not the first related Ordinance though – there has been one in 2010, one in 2018, and then another in 2019.

Let me first clarify that my party, All India Trinamool Council is always against the attitude or attempt to bypass the elected House of the People and pass an Ordinance. In the last few years, we have seen a ratio of 10 to 4 with respect to Bills to Ordinances whereas after independence, the first 30 years saw a ratio of only 1 Ordinance for every 10 Bills while the next 30 years saw only 2 Ordinances for every 10 Bills. This is undemocratic and unhealthy for our democracy.

The question is, why was the Bill was allowed to lapse several times since 2016, when the matter is such a serious one? We have seen many deaths, particularly 50 deaths in only one State of our nation. So I consider it my sacrosanct duty as a responsible Opposition member to sound out to the government that passing an Ordinance is a peril to democracy.

The Indian Medical Council was formed in 1933 and the first Indian Medical Council Act was formulated in 1956, but thereafter rampant all-pervasive corruption had crept in and the Medical Council was plagued by it. The functions of the Medical Council mentioned thereof were to make recommendations to the Central Government on the subjects of giving recognition to medical institutions, determining the course of study and examinations after completing the syllabus, inspection of examinations, and maintaining the register for medical practitioners.

As per List II in the Seventh Schedule of the Constitution, and as determined by Article 246, Health is a State subject, and so the Central Government should not formulate rules to interfere in this provision of empowerment to the States. This Bill deals with the fate of those whose faces we see right when we are born and at the end, when we die, and they are the doctors. A former HRD Minister contradicted Darwin’s theory of evolution, stating, and I quote, “none of our ancestors have seen an ape turn into a man.”

Madam, such statements are not only dangerous but also highly irresponsible, as the very fundamental principles on which medical science is built are shattered. It has been stated, and I quote, that “cancer is the result of past life sins and a form of divine retribution.” It is ridiculous. Some have stated that cow urine or ‘gau mutra’ can cure cancer. That is absolutely against the present scientific standard of research all over the world. The vice-chancellor of a State university has claimed that the technique of creating test tube babies existed in ancient India, and referred to the Kauravas.

According to the Indian Constitution, the development of scientific temper, humanism and the spirit of inquiry and reform is the duty of every citizen and is implicitly the responsibility of the state, and the state should take cognisance of this fact. However it is highly unfortunate that irresponsible statements have been made by individuals who maintain high public offices which attack the very basis of medicine.

We agree that India has a very rich cultural heritage, the history of medical sciences being known through ‘Charaka Samhita’, written in 200 BC, and ‘Sushruts Samhita’ (Sushruta was known as the ‘Master of Surgeries’ in India in the 13th century), but we have come a long way from that. Today we have research on using stem cells for improving cardiac health, in-vitro fertilisation, preimplantation genetic diagnosis (PGD), etc. Today’s medical science is very strong. The inspiration doctors get is from practitioners like Leonid Rogozov, a Soviet GP (general physician) on the sixth Soviet Antarctic Expedition. He had the strength to perform appendectomy on himself alone, when he was stationed at the Arctic Novolazarevskaya Station.

Doctors are not puppets. A sixteen or seventeen-year-old forgoes movies with friends, family reunions, shopping sprees with mother to sit and study for 16 hours a day in order to crack the medical entrance examination. Students of our varied country, with multiple linguistic areas and regional sentiments should be allowed to write their exams in their mother tongue, if they are proficient in that.

Deaths have occurred with respect to writing the National Eligibility-cum-Entrance Test (NEET). A particular incident I want to mention happened in Tamil Nadu, when a girl, a topper, committed suicide because she couldn’t crack the NEET. We suggest that to avoid such deaths we should do away with this entrance test. We should depend on the class 12 qualifying examination marks to give entrance into medical institutions because students study very hard for this. They then study 12 hours a day for six years to become attain the Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Science (MBBS) degree. Can this rigorous six years of study be diluted by a six-month bridge course of a quack?

For clinical training many junior doctors perform emergency services through day and night. Being only human they too feel tired so they sleep in a mackintosh, which we wear during operative procedures, on the floor of the OT. I don’t know any other professional who sleeps on the floor of the office just for the sake of performance of duty. Doctors are nearly gods and accepted mortality rate is there in the statistics of medical science. But in India today, when a patient expires the family of the patient has the gall to beat up and hurt the healer. This is not unusual in this ‘Lynchistan’. This is highly condemnable.

Socrates once asked, “Tell me, is a doctor in the precise sense a money-maker or someone who treats the sick?” and Plato remarked, “Is the practise of medicine a science, an art, a trait, a craft, a business, a profession or a combination thereof?”

Well, a doctor, after nearly 10 years of back-breaking training, is indeed a godly figure, but to raise his family and himself he requires money too so he should not be blamed for earning a livelihood. Property and personal safety should be looked after by the state, by the government. Security funds should be increased and budgetary allocations for the medical curriculum should be increased. In this country, we have less than 2 per cent of the budgetary allocation for medicine and none other than Arvind Panagariya ji had commented that rural healthcare in India faces a crisis unmatched by any other sector. And instead of trying to enhance the budgetary allocations we are trying to rein in the doctors.

I agree that the MCI has been very corrupt; officers have been arrested. There was all-pervasive rampant corruption by the medical mafia. So, we have to be aware of this. But we should not overrun the State Government’s responsibility because health is a State subject; it should remain with the State.

Appointing medical administrators should not be through nomination. It is a rule that people in a nominated body or board will be medical educationists of proven administrative quality. Though I agree that administrators are required to run the back office, capable administrators may not necessarily know about cutting edge technology, about the science of the medical fraternity. So it should be medical people only; and it should be through the process of election in all the branches of the State.

Doctors should be allowed to elect their chosen members, who will in turn inform the central body. Bureaucrats do not have the qualities required to run the Medical Council because they have no idea of cutting-edge technology. So raising the number of members from 7 to 12 is ridiculous because unqualified people in huge numbers will not be able to take the decisions related to the medical curriculum and the examinations. There has to be inclusion of doctors.

This is a State subject and the doctors of the State should be allowed to elect from among themselves qualified doctors who will represent and run the whole country’s medical system so that the federal structure is not hampered.